Prior to reinventing himself as the French-Canadian Frankenstein, PCO performed under a number of different names and gimmicks. One of those was Pierre, one-half of the Quebecers, under which he won three WWF Tag Team Championships. Under the same name, PCO was one of the participants in the ill-fated Brawl for All, which was recently the subject of an episode of the critically-acclaimed Dark Side of the Ring series,.

PCO recently joined me discuss his participation in the Brawl for All and the Dark Side of the Ring documentaries.

On the Dark Side of the Ring documentary series:

SL: “The reason I bring those guys up specifically is because synchronicity really seems to be a theme throughout your career, and you have those two guys and then you have the Brawl for All all featured in one year on Dark side of the Ring – but we don’t see any of you! Number one, how have you enjoyed the series if you’ve had a chance to watch it and B) what was your experience like in the Brawl for All since they didn’t ask you!”

PCO: “I think they showed – I watched it. I watched the show and had a lot of guys calling me like Marty Scurll said, ‘oh, you didn’t know I didn’t know that you were part of Brawl for All,’ and Marty texted me on that, and a bunch of other guys and I did a few interviews as well. Yeah, my first fight was against the guy that was supposed to win the whole thing. (It) was against Dr. Death Steve Williams, and Steve Williams, I think he was a little bit worried facing me.

Like, he was trying to – he’s very intimidating, he (was) trying to intimidate a lot, he was trying to intimidate a lot of youngsters and young guys. At that time, I was like, probably 29-30 though. Hawk of the Road Warriors came up to me before the fight, and he said ‘Steve’s not gonna hurt you, just like when he hits you, when he tags you, just go down.

Just pick up your five grand, man, just don’t give him a fight. He’s gonna, he’s gonna kill you.’ I told Mike, Mike Extreme, I told them I said ‘Hawk, just go back to Steve and just tell them that I’m gonna give him the fight of his life,’ you know, ‘I don’t care about it, like Jesus.’ Basically, I said different words on that but I don’t know if we’re allowed to curse.”

SL: “You’re more than welcome to cuss on here, we got the explicit rating on iTunes for that!”

PCO: “Word-for-word I told him, I said ‘tell Steve to go fuck themselves, go fuck himself with the five g’s and the easy win I’m gonna kick, I’m gonna kick his butt and I’m gonna beat the shit out of him. Just tell him that.”

PCO: “It was short notice, you know. I got worked out so bad on this, you know. Like, I had been sent at one point to Power Pro Wrestling which was like the OVW or the NXT at the time. Kurt Angle, everybody, like – when they didn’t have something for you or if they were-“

SL: “Like, developmental, quote-unquote?

PCO: “Yeah, it was. Yeah. (If they) didn’t have anything on the creative side and they wanted you to work on another character or something, they would send you there, or they would bring guys up, like Kurt Angle got brought up from there. I was there with both guys of Three Minute Warning, Rosey and Jamal, you know, and Fatu was there, that was before he did one of his gimmicks. The kids, the Usos, they used to come. They were 10 years old or 9 years old. They used to come all the time. There was a bunch of guys, the Samoan guys, you know, holding the territory.”

PCO: “So, then I had a break. I was at home and it was during summertime and I got a phone call from Bruce Prichard. He said ‘hey, Carl. Vince (has) got a great idea for you. I was like ‘What? He’s got a great idea for me? What is it?’”

PCO: “I (bit) on it. I’m like ‘yeah, what is it? I’m so excited!’ ‘Yeah, yeah,’ he says. ‘It’s gonna be a tournament and it’s gonna be 16 guys, and it’s gonna be a shoot. You’ve got to fight for real. Five points you know, if you touch with your glove, and five points for a takedown and you get five grand every match, but then the Quarter Final you make 25, semi-final 50, if you won the whole thing, you make 200 Grand 250 grand. And I’m like ‘that’s not a bad idea!”

SL: “If you make it far, it’s not a bad idea!”

PCO: “That’s a hell of a push! I truly believe that maybe if I was lucky enough, I could have, like, a lucky punch or something, because they called me on a two-week or a week-and-a-half (weeks) notice, you know? Oh, really? Short. Yeah. Yeah, I didn’t have – I didn’t have time to train for that.

SL: “Just like for reference, would any of the other guys have known earlier? Like a Doctor Death: did he know months in advance or how was that sort of planned out?”

PCO: “You would have to make some research on it, but the rumours, maybe if I knew that probably other guys know that, or guys like Bruce Prichard or Vince Russo might know that. I think they gave him enough time to train and to get ready for this because they wanted him to win this thing and to go against – that’s what Jim said, I’m not sure if that was the plan for him to go against Steve Austin – but they wanted to build Doctor Death with this, I think, even if it was created on something that Bradshaw was bragging about with Vince Russo and then decided to go with it. I think Williams is really just the guy that they thought would win it by what he had achieved, being a four-time All-American in wrestling and having played for the Oakland Raiders in the NFL a little bit and college football and being a tough guy and having like a reputation of being one of the toughest shooters in the wrestling business.”

SL: “(He) just had the resume.”

PCO: “Yeah, beating up guys. You know, I’d seen him like, bullying new guys, young kids and things like that. And, he was strong. I saw him – like he did like he was doing like, easy – I saw him press Phineas Godwinn probably 300 pounds over his head in a wrestling match. In the gym, he was super strong, too, like behind the neck, easy. 350 pounds easy. He would do like 10 reps of that. So he was a strong guy. Yeah.”

SL: “It wasn’t an undeserved reputation.”

PCO: “Yeah, well, I don’t know if he – you know, probably some guy saw him in the ring giving a lot of beatings to job guys and things like that, or guys that are popping out in the business, or guys with a reputation that (were maybe) trying to go against them or whatever. I don’t know, because I’m not from that, from Steve’s era, really. He’s older than me, and he did a lot of his things for UWF, which I did watch a little bit but no, I wasn’t a part of them. I was a kid still. So, anyway, I took the fight on short notice, and I thought to myself, I said to myself, ‘if I, you know, by any kind of luck in any kind of good vein, I want to win this thing. It’s going to be – I want to force myself into a bush.

Well, it didn’t turn out to be like that, but I did fairly good. I didn’t get knocked down. The scariest thing when you do something like that you don’t want to end up on your ass. You don’t want to end up doing the bacon dance, you know?”

SL: “I’ve never heard that before! That’s hilarious.”

PCO: “You want to keep your pride you know, you want to show that you can go to fight and have a good fight.”

SL: “Hundred percent. Well, for what it’s worth, I don’t think anybody got that major push out of the brawl for all nonetheless yourself.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used. 

Current MLW star Josef Samael has been thrilling and shocking audiences worldwide for the better part Whether it be as the Almighty Sheik, NASDAQ, or in his current incarnation as the head of CONTRA Unit, Samael has become one of the most respected names in the business today.

However, despite a loaded resume and the overwhelming respect of his peers, Samael only signed his first contract in professional wrestling a little over two years ago.

Samael recently joined me to discuss his role in Major League Wrestling, as well as signing his first-ever contract in professional wrestling with the promotion.

His role as a veteran in Major League Wrestling:

SL: “You sort of answered the question for me, but I was gonna ask you: how vital is it to have someone like yourself in a Major League Wrestling where you’re one of the deepest rosters in pro wrestling, period, but perhaps there are some individuals there who haven’t been in the ring or haven’t had the experience that someone like yourself has had in professional wrestling? Do you see that as a bit of your role as one of the veterans of the promotion?”

JS: “Absolutely. Everything I’ve learned in professional wrestling, somebody’s taught me, Indirectly directly, whatever. So, you know, it’s my duty to do the same, whether they’re receptive or not. MLW has a very respectful locker room, the younger guys really, really respect the old guard. And, unfortunately, I’ve found myself as one of the old guard today, it’s weird, it happened in a blink of an eye, but I do like to take my knowledge and give it to these younger guys because I sit on – I see things from a completely different vantage point, and a lot of times what I say to a younger guy doesn’t apply, and a lot of times it does. Sometimes, I can just tweak them a certain way. ‘Hey, move right instead of left. Hey, when you do that, keep doing that, but do it this way.’ You know, ‘pull back on that, push forward on that.’ Just these little things that – a lot of wisdom in professional wrestling isn’t always-or-never. It’s situational. It depends on the person.”

“So yeah, the younger guys are very receptive to me, and I have found myself in that role quite often, agenting matches. That’s one of my favorite things to do with MLW, and I’ve been very successful with my finishes. I fancy myself a ‘finish’ guy. I am really good at connecting the dots and making sense of this thing. And I think that’s very important, is to not only make sense of it, but to have it be digestible to an audience.

To do something, sometimes people do things just to let everybody know they’re smart, and that’s not always the route you should take in pro wrestling. Sometimes it should be spoon-fed to an eight-year-old. Sometimes things should be obvious.

Other times things should not be obvious. Sometimes when they think you’re going right, you should go left. Sometimes you should give them what you want. Sometimes you should take it away. It’s really, really important to understand the psychology of professional wrestling and to apply it in the right places. We’re not always right, and we’re not always wrong, but we definitely try to have the best batting average as possible if that makes any sense.”

Signing his first-ever wrestling contracts with Major League Wrestling:

SL: “We mentioned right off the hop on this interview that you’re a very well-traveled guy. You’ve wrestled for a number of different promotions, but I believe I’m correct in saying that this is your first professional wrestling contract, or, I guess contracts now by this point. What is it about the promotion that inspired you to make the jump and make a formal commitment to them?

”

JS: “Well, first of all, yes, it is. It is my first professional wrestling contract, and that’s completely by design. It’s not that I was never offered or it’s not anything like that. I just always kind of travelled that Bruiser Brody route. He was somebody that was a great inspiration to me and I just felt like I felt like the business was an outlaw business, and when I broke in there was still crazies in it and it was like a place where crazies could go to work. That’s kind of what I like to do. I’d like to travel. I like to globetrot. I like to do stuff. As I started to get older, I was always concerned with keeping one foot in front of the other having something to look forward to it. You know, as far as work goes, I don’t have a retirement. I don’t – entertainment and professional wrestling is my life. It is my livelihood. If you’re a smart performer, you’re always trying to figure out how to have something else in the future. This way you never run out of work as long as you can. So I’ve always been somebody that learned every part of the business.

I’ve always been in the back office booking and I’ve always been creating digital art and T-shirt designs. Everything. I’ve done every aspect of professional wrestling from top to bottom, besides editing. That’s the only thing I’ve never done which I’ll hopefully learn one day. But, as I grow older and I started to think as offers came in, I was kind of scared to do that because it felt very final to me, like somebody would own me or somebody. MLW was just the right fit for me. The people that are within the business are people that I respect. I know that they respect the professional wrestling that I like to present and I’m not saying that ours is better than anybody else’s but MLW’s product reminds me of World Class. It reminds me of the Florida Championship Wrestling of Eddie Graham, the Dory Funk Sr’s, it reminds me of All Japan, it reminds me of the professional wrestling business that I grew up to love. I certainly wouldn’t sign on with any company that I didn’t respect, and there’s plenty that I don’t but without naming any names, but when I definitely wanted to be with a group that I felt part of the family. I felt at home and MLW is certainly that for me.”

JS: “So yeah, it was a bit nerve-wracking, but I had friends in there so I felt like I went you know what I didn’t feel out of sorts. I knew after speaking to them that I was wanted for more than just my in-ring, and that’s something that’s very attractive to me because I do have a lot of knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge from just my experience on the road, and from – I’m not trying to name drop, but I talked to Terry Funk often. I talk to Kevin Sullivan almost daily. I talk to Jake Roberts whenever I can.

I talk to these guys that are, to me, the Einsteins of the business and I do have that knowledge to give these young guys, and not only do I have it, but I love to give it. It’s a passion of mine to be surrounded in the art and the history and the mechanics of professional wrestling. So MLW is just a great fit, I know it’s a long answer, but it’s just a great fit for me and, and a place that I feel at home, and I honestly don’t feel like -unless something absolutely crazy happened and they didn’t want me anymore – I feel like I’ll have a long history with MLW and most likely close out my career there.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used. 

In 2019, PCO finally reached the pinnacle of professional wrestling, capturing his first-ever World’s Championship after defeating RUSH at Ring of Honor’s Final Battle event. It was the culmination of an over 30-year journey to the apex of the business, and as he described to me, the wait made the victory that much sweeter.

Winning the ROH Heavyweight Championship

SL: “That’s a good point to be a man. It’s a great point to be at. I want to touch back on that championship because obviously, man, being the Ring of Honor World Heavyweight Champion is a huge, huge honour. When you held the championship, did losing out on that experience or missing out however you want to phrase it, how much does that make it mean more when you finally do win the title?”

PCO: ”Yeah, it means so much more, because you feel that you earned it, you know, it’s not something that was handed to you. You really never stopped believing, you’re really – you’re achieving yourself, you know, you’re realizing a goal that a lot of wrestlers will never have the chance to achieve. It’s just, it’s just amazing. It’s such a great, awesome feeling., and, you know, there’s still work. I’m still learning, (I’m) still learning a lot of things as I go on the journey. I don’t think we ever stop learning, but I learned a lot, you know, during that experience.

”

SL: ”And you didn’t even have to pay $3,000 for it.”

PCO: ”No, but all those experiences though, like, when you when the title, all those moments (flash) in your mind, you know. You have all – all this is like in a minute and 30 seconds. You see all your career unfold in front of you, and all the way up to this.

You see all the setbacks, all the obstacles, all the naysayers, the non-believers, the people who trash you or didn’t believe in you. You go through all that, and then, when you get it, it’s like, wow. It’s the best feeling in the world.

”

If he feels he’s accomplished his goal of growing ROH as a promotion:

SL: ”It’s cool to hear that. The first interview that I ever heard when you became this absolute freak of nature, man, you started talking about what your goals were with Ring of Honor. It was right after you’d signed, and you said you wanted to be with them and grow a territory and grow both as a professional wrestler and as a promotion. Do you feel you’ve accomplished that?”

PCO: ”Yeah, I think the pandemic kinda stopped the process a little bit, but I think – I did some major, major like podcasts, talk shows, major talk shows with over 1.5 million viewers. I was invited – I was the last guest of the night. I was like the main event of the show. I think I did put Ring of Honor’s name on [everyone’s] lips. Everybody that was watching and everybody was waiting for a big Championship match at the Bell Center (in) Montreal, and I had all the journalists and newspaper guys and columnists waiting for it, and everybody, they were saying all the same things, you know, ‘(if) you defend the title in Montreal, we’re selling out the Bell Center. So that would have been like an All In for Ring of Honor, Part Two. It would have been insane.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used. 

Before becoming the Frankenstein-like monster he’s portrayed since his return to professional wrestling, PCO was well-known for his work in both the Quebecers and as a singles act known as Jean-Pierre LaFitte in the WWF. As part of his run as LaFitte, PCO was able to work with a number of WWF’s top stars, including a highly-regarded feud with wrestling legend Bret “the Hitman” Hart.

PCO joined me to discuss a variety of topics, including his thoughts on working with Hart. Highlights are available below prior to the full conversation’s release this Wednesday.

Working with Bret “the Hitman” Hart:

SL: ”We’re getting closer to wrapping it up, so I’ve got to ask a couple of quicker ones for you, but that’s fine by me. I like picking your brain on pro wrestling. I would be doing a sin and a great disservice to my listeners if I didn’t ask you about the match with Bret Hart. As an Albertan podcast, as an Albertan wrestling fan, I’d probably get shot if I didn’t ask you about it. How much did it mean to you when you found out that it was going to be included on Brett’s DVD?

That was my first experience watching you wrestle!”

PCO: “I was very, very flattered by that. I was really proud of that. To me, it was like an achievement because (of) how many guys that Bret had wrestled. Like, how many – what, he’s got, like, over a 20-year carrier. I don’t know how many years. I’m not talking about England or Calgary, Stampede, or Japan, just WWF itself.

(He) had been in the ring with all the greatest guys. So just to be picked to be on the Dungeon collection (from) Bret Hart, that was an awesome achievement and good news. Yeah, (it) felt really good.

PCO: ”Actually, Brett was one of my favourite guys to work with and against. I had him on a tour and oh man. He was over all over the place, but Germany (it) was like Michael Jackson coming out of the bus. I mean, I’ve seen girls crying just seeing him. Just him getting out of the bus, I’ve seen girls crying, like shaking and almost passing out. It was so-“

SL: ”For what it’s worth, I started jumping up and down when I found out I was gonna talk to you!”

PCO: “(laughs) But, just seeing that on the tour and wrestling him every night you know, in the main events in Germany was pretty awesome. And, In Your House, (I) wrestled him twice on – one time, and it was probably the last match of the night in Nashville, this one was just like a – I think that they wanted to see how me and Bret would gel before they put us in a rivalry.”

SL: “Sort of test the waters first?

PCO: “Yeah, yeah, and I had done very good. It was a good match, and then, I guess they asked Bret ‘do you want to work with him?

You know, do you want to get into a feud with him?’ Bret came to me and said ‘we’re gonna feud for a while,’ so that was awesome. He was really – (he’s) a guy that, he’s really tough to get around when you’re not wrestling.

Like, he was a lot by himself, doing his own things, minding his own business, but nice to everybody. But, when you had a match, an important match, (A) pay-per-view with him, he would say – he would give you his phone number, he would say ‘call me (at) home, we’ll discuss this. We’ll put some ideas together.’ He was really, really, really pro about matches. Even if he had, like, tons of interviews to do in the afternoon, (when) it was like “Bret, here we need you, Bret here and Bret there,’ he would make sure that we (would) have enough time to get together and get a great match.

So yeah, very professional. He always wants to steal the show and to be up to the task, and that was a – I’ve had like problems with other guys, me and Brett, we were always cool.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used.