In 2019, PCO finally reached the pinnacle of professional wrestling, capturing his first-ever World’s Championship after defeating RUSH at Ring of Honor’s Final Battle event. It was the culmination of an over 30-year journey to the apex of the business, and as he described to me, the wait made the victory that much sweeter.

Winning the ROH Heavyweight Championship

SL: “That’s a good point to be a man. It’s a great point to be at. I want to touch back on that championship because obviously, man, being the Ring of Honor World Heavyweight Champion is a huge, huge honour. When you held the championship, did losing out on that experience or missing out however you want to phrase it, how much does that make it mean more when you finally do win the title?”

PCO: ”Yeah, it means so much more, because you feel that you earned it, you know, it’s not something that was handed to you. You really never stopped believing, you’re really – you’re achieving yourself, you know, you’re realizing a goal that a lot of wrestlers will never have the chance to achieve. It’s just, it’s just amazing. It’s such a great, awesome feeling., and, you know, there’s still work. I’m still learning, (I’m) still learning a lot of things as I go on the journey. I don’t think we ever stop learning, but I learned a lot, you know, during that experience.

”

SL: ”And you didn’t even have to pay $3,000 for it.”

PCO: ”No, but all those experiences though, like, when you when the title, all those moments (flash) in your mind, you know. You have all – all this is like in a minute and 30 seconds. You see all your career unfold in front of you, and all the way up to this.

You see all the setbacks, all the obstacles, all the naysayers, the non-believers, the people who trash you or didn’t believe in you. You go through all that, and then, when you get it, it’s like, wow. It’s the best feeling in the world.

”

If he feels he’s accomplished his goal of growing ROH as a promotion:

SL: ”It’s cool to hear that. The first interview that I ever heard when you became this absolute freak of nature, man, you started talking about what your goals were with Ring of Honor. It was right after you’d signed, and you said you wanted to be with them and grow a territory and grow both as a professional wrestler and as a promotion. Do you feel you’ve accomplished that?”

PCO: ”Yeah, I think the pandemic kinda stopped the process a little bit, but I think – I did some major, major like podcasts, talk shows, major talk shows with over 1.5 million viewers. I was invited – I was the last guest of the night. I was like the main event of the show. I think I did put Ring of Honor’s name on [everyone’s] lips. Everybody that was watching and everybody was waiting for a big Championship match at the Bell Center (in) Montreal, and I had all the journalists and newspaper guys and columnists waiting for it, and everybody, they were saying all the same things, you know, ‘(if) you defend the title in Montreal, we’re selling out the Bell Center. So that would have been like an All In for Ring of Honor, Part Two. It would have been insane.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used. 

Before becoming the Frankenstein-like monster he’s portrayed since his return to professional wrestling, PCO was well-known for his work in both the Quebecers and as a singles act known as Jean-Pierre LaFitte in the WWF. As part of his run as LaFitte, PCO was able to work with a number of WWF’s top stars, including a highly-regarded feud with wrestling legend Bret “the Hitman” Hart.

PCO joined me to discuss a variety of topics, including his thoughts on working with Hart. Highlights are available below prior to the full conversation’s release this Wednesday.

Working with Bret “the Hitman” Hart:

SL: ”We’re getting closer to wrapping it up, so I’ve got to ask a couple of quicker ones for you, but that’s fine by me. I like picking your brain on pro wrestling. I would be doing a sin and a great disservice to my listeners if I didn’t ask you about the match with Bret Hart. As an Albertan podcast, as an Albertan wrestling fan, I’d probably get shot if I didn’t ask you about it. How much did it mean to you when you found out that it was going to be included on Brett’s DVD?

That was my first experience watching you wrestle!”

PCO: “I was very, very flattered by that. I was really proud of that. To me, it was like an achievement because (of) how many guys that Bret had wrestled. Like, how many – what, he’s got, like, over a 20-year carrier. I don’t know how many years. I’m not talking about England or Calgary, Stampede, or Japan, just WWF itself.

(He) had been in the ring with all the greatest guys. So just to be picked to be on the Dungeon collection (from) Bret Hart, that was an awesome achievement and good news. Yeah, (it) felt really good.

PCO: ”Actually, Brett was one of my favourite guys to work with and against. I had him on a tour and oh man. He was over all over the place, but Germany (it) was like Michael Jackson coming out of the bus. I mean, I’ve seen girls crying just seeing him. Just him getting out of the bus, I’ve seen girls crying, like shaking and almost passing out. It was so-“

SL: ”For what it’s worth, I started jumping up and down when I found out I was gonna talk to you!”

PCO: “(laughs) But, just seeing that on the tour and wrestling him every night you know, in the main events in Germany was pretty awesome. And, In Your House, (I) wrestled him twice on – one time, and it was probably the last match of the night in Nashville, this one was just like a – I think that they wanted to see how me and Bret would gel before they put us in a rivalry.”

SL: “Sort of test the waters first?

PCO: “Yeah, yeah, and I had done very good. It was a good match, and then, I guess they asked Bret ‘do you want to work with him?

You know, do you want to get into a feud with him?’ Bret came to me and said ‘we’re gonna feud for a while,’ so that was awesome. He was really – (he’s) a guy that, he’s really tough to get around when you’re not wrestling.

Like, he was a lot by himself, doing his own things, minding his own business, but nice to everybody. But, when you had a match, an important match, (A) pay-per-view with him, he would say – he would give you his phone number, he would say ‘call me (at) home, we’ll discuss this. We’ll put some ideas together.’ He was really, really, really pro about matches. Even if he had, like, tons of interviews to do in the afternoon, (when) it was like “Bret, here we need you, Bret here and Bret there,’ he would make sure that we (would) have enough time to get together and get a great match.

So yeah, very professional. He always wants to steal the show and to be up to the task, and that was a – I’ve had like problems with other guys, me and Brett, we were always cool.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used. 

There’s no doubt that Major League Wrestling features some of the most talented individuals in the professional wrestling business, whether it be in-ring workers, agents, producers or managers. One individual that checks all of those boxes and more is Josef Samael, the leader of CONTRA Unit and a veteran of over 20+ years in the industry.

Samael recently joined me to discuss a variety of topics, including CONTRA Unit’s feud with LA Park and specifically his work with Salina de la Renta.

Working with Salina de la Renta

SL: “I bring up the LA Park match and that feud specifically because, in relation to you, I absolutely loved the work that you did with Salina de la Renta. You’ve mentioned her as a student of the game, you’ve brought her up a number of times in previous interviews. What’s it been like to work with her in the capacity you have?

JS: “It’s been very positive. She is somebody that – she’s special. You have these pieces of talent, and, you know, there’s just certain pieces of talent that are just special. She’s incredibly gifted. She’s very young. I believe she’s 22, 23, I mean, maybe 24. I think she’s 22 or (23). But to have the, not so much the knowledge of the business, but the wherewithal. Just – she does the right things without nobody teaching her, you know what I mean? She’s just he’s just natural. She’s very gifted. You know, there’s this old saying in wrestling that you have to believe your own bullshit excuse my language.”

SL: “No worries, you got the explicit rating on podcasts, were fine.”

JS: “She believes what she does, much like myself. There’s something to be said about somebody that can talk in this business. A lot of your money is made with your mouth. Being able to talk in this business is something that – I like to think I can and a lot of people like to say that I can – and it’s something that I think is one of the greatest tools. The matches are always whatever, you know, the finishes I think have to be extraordinary. But it’s the build-up to a match, the talking to people into the arena that I think is just such (an) important tool in our business, and she’s got it in spades. She is – and that comes with believing your own bullshit is the confidence. A lot of times you see people talking and you can see the gears turning. You could see the wheels turning, rather, you understand that they have memorized something. And it just really – for me, personally, it takes me completely out of the story. I like to have points and understand kind of where I’m going, and I like to speak as frankly and as naturally as possible. Salina’s just somebody that delivers promos and lines in just a confident way that every single time I see it, I buy it, and I believe it and if I was a paying fan, I would definitely be paying to see her. Whether it’s her getting beat, whether it’s whatever it is, but she’s somebody that definitely he convinces me 10 out of 10 times.”

JS: “I have nothing but high praise for her. She’s a wonderful piece of talent and I’m really excited to see where she goes from here. Not meaning other places! Not meaning other places, I mean how her character develops because she’s so good now, we can only imagine her in her 30s and 40s and what type of a character she’s going to be. It took me a lot longer to develop into something because I was more involved in the actual wrestling. I always had a good promo and this and that, but I never really had somebody put me through the paces and I never did the reps to where I had TV early on, I would cut promos, whatever, but she’s got so much time put into her, just like I do now. So we’re able to go through the reps now. I wasn’t able to go through the reps as early as she has, so I’m really, really interested to see her in a decade from now. She’s gonna be even more phenomenal.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used. 

There’s no hyperbole behind the statement that Josef Samael is one of professional wrestling’s brightest minds. Over the course of his 20+ year career, the CONTRA Unit leader has had a hand in the development of some of professional wrestling’s top stars, and that’s only continued since signing with Major League Wrestling in 2018.

Samael recently joined me to discuss a wide variety of topics, including his love of working with the likes of Alexander Hammerstone and MLW Heavyweight Champion Jacob Fatu.

Working with Alexander Hammerstone

SL: “I really liked the point you made there on the psychology because I think it’s something that applies really, really well to two individuals you’ve brought up in the past in Jacob Fatou and Alex Hammerstone. Now, obviously, with the two it’s very obvious the relationship that you guys have as far as pro wrestling goes, but maybe take me a little bit into the relationship you have with the both of them and what made them sort of stand out as people you really wanted to take on as a mentoree.”

JS: “So, Hammerstone I met first. I was promoting shows in Arizona, by way of California. We were doing pretty well, and Hammerstone was a young guy and I look through the lens of old school guy. I don’t like to give anybody anything. I like to make sure that they want it. I like to make sure that the knowledge that I give is used properly. I don’t – I make people work for it, and Hammerstone is one of the hardest workers I’ve ever met in professional wrestling, is one of the hardest workers I’ve ever met in life. He just is not scared to work. I tested him multiple times, I would say, ‘Hey, you know, you want to spot here. I’ve got a Cruiserweight spot.’ The guy shedded about 25 pounds and got shredded. I manipulated him in ways that were not malicious. I manipulated him in ways to see, you know, how mentally strong he is. A couple times, he wanted stuff a little too early, or he got frustrated, but I always kept beating the drum in the same way. Eventually, he would see on more than one occasion that I was truthful and I was trustworthy, and what I said was right, and it came to fruition. So I really, really took a lot of time with Hammerstone and, you know, learning him and understanding him and testing him. To be quite honest, he’s hit the ball out of the park every single time. He’s somebody that continues to get better. He continues to impress. He continues to shape up his body better, his mind, his psychology. He’s just somebody that if you see, and then you see him six months later, he’s better. He’s also somebody that absorbs knowledge. If you tell him ‘Hey, this….’ he doesn’t go ‘yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.’ He actually applies the knowledge, like, instantly and correctly. So, he’s somebody that I have a lot of fun – he likes to say I’m his mentor. I don’t like to take any credit for him. I’ll always be there to help him, but he is certainly somebody that has helped himself and done the work. Yeah, I’ve given him knowledge. Yeah, here and there I’ve done this and that for him, but others did that for me, too. So I definitely transfer that.”

Working with MLW Heavyweight Champion Jacob Fatu:

JS: “Fatu I saw and Fatu is somebody that when you see for the first time, it’s like, he’s a 300 pounder, and he’s like a 300 pound six-foot-something pile of money. He’s just absolutely phenomenal. I definitely had a few, I wouldn’t say fights, but we didn’t see eye-to-eye when we first met. He wanted something a certain way and I explained to him the way it really is. And he was very young. And then little by little, I earned his trust.”

He’s just somebody that doesn’t have to try. He’s just incredibly, incredibly gifted. He has just probably one of the most naturally gifted guys I’ve ever seen. I mean, on his worst day, he can do better than 98% of the wrestlers out there. He’s just, he’s just incredibly gifted and he’s natural. So Fatu is somebody that I’ve really enjoyed kind of just sanding the corners off of.”

“I think that’s where my talent lies is I’m not somebody that can tell a guy – I could – but I’m not the type of guy that likes to take somebody from a seed. I like a trained guy that has got a little bit of momentum and then I like to show them how to get from the second rung of the ladder to the 10th rung of the ladder. I like to show them how to really, really exploit their talents, how to really, really shine the light on their gifts. A lot of times what hurts talent is they want to do something rather than – it’s like if you’re a duck, and you want to be a tiger, and it’s like, ‘hey, hey, you’re not a tiger, you’re a duck’ or vice versa. ‘Hey, you’re, you’re a tiger, don’t quack anymore,’ you know, and it’s like you’re trying to show these guys. And you really have to show them by them, gaining their trust, and then having them apply things. And then, when it works, live, some of the guys – not all of them, some of the guys and girls, not all of them – a light will come on when it works, and they’ll go ‘oh!’ you know, and those are really the people, the coachable people, the teachable people are the ones that I like to be around because there’s some guys that are just not coachable and they’re incredibly frustrating to be around and (with) Hammerstone and Fatu it’s almost like I got aces up my sleeve. I mean, those guys were gonna be good with or without me, you know what I mean? I just liked I just like to give them a little bit extra so they can get to the finish line a little bit quicker. So, I don’t take too much credit for those guys but I definitely enjoy being on the sidelines coaching them any way I can because they’re amazing. They’re incredible to watch and I am a fan of them.”

Please credit Spencer Love/Love Wrestling with any transcriptions used.